Miscellaneous Debris

Hello all,

I've been a lurker on the Story Games forum for a bit and saw the post about this new forum on game design. I've been toying with a game and would like to share it with this community since The Forge intimidates me.

I've been thinking about how you could make a baseball RPG. With the success of Contenders and recent release of Piledrivers and Powerbombs, it looks like some of the market will accept sport-themed RPGs.

Right now I'm trying to figure out the best way to dramatize an at-bat in a baseball game. Here's what I have so far.

An at bat is simulated in a single roll. The player states his intentions when his PC comes to bat (the batting strategy; EX: "I'm swinging for the fences" or "I'm trying to put it in play"). The PC batter makes 2 d10 rolls. * The first is a "contact roll" and this determines if the batter put wood on the ball rather than striking out of walking.
* The second roll is a "hit" roll and it determines the outcome of the "contact" roll... is it a single, a double, a fly out

The batting strategy affects the die roll. If the player says "I'm swinging for the fences" then the PC gets a penalty to the contact roll, but a benefit to the hit roll. Conversely, if the player were to state, "I'm trying to put it in play" then the PC gets a bennie for his contact roll at a cost to his hit roll.

I want to work in player stats as a modifier to the roll along with the position of the PC. I also would like to see if I can work in an opposition roll from the pitcher to have a true showdown between them.

Thoughts?
Nathan

[quote="Nathan Burrows"]The batting strategy affects the die roll. If the player says "I'm swinging for the fences" then the PC gets a penalty to the contact roll, but a benefit to the hit roll. Conversely, if the player were to state, "I'm trying to put it in play" then the PC gets a bennie for his contact roll at a cost to his hit roll.[/quoote]

This is the only part that sounds a bit funny to me. Why would a powerful swing (aiming for the fences) be less likely to make contact with the ball? Similarly, why would a light swing be more likely to hit it? Both of those things seem contrary to how the physics of baseball worked when I was playing (granted, it has been a long while). Hitting the ball has more to do with hand-eye coordination than with force of the swing, IME.

Would iot make sens eto give the pitcher a menu of possible pitches against which different batting strategies have variable bonuses. Perhaps a batter could even try to anticipate a pitch, gaining bonuses if he guesses right and huge penalties if he's wrong.

Oh, and of course there must be a modifier that reflects the source of chewing pleasure.

Brimshack wrote:Would iot make sens eto give the pitcher a menu of possible pitches against which different batting strategies have variable bonuses. Perhaps a batter could even try to anticipate a pitch, gaining bonuses if he guesses right and huge penalties if he's wrong.

That sounds very cool!

Brimshack wrote:Would iot make sens eto give the pitcher a menu of possible pitches against which different batting strategies have variable bonuses. Perhaps a batter could even try to anticipate a pitch, gaining bonuses if he guesses right and huge penalties if he's wrong.

Rock-Scissors-Paper gaming. This is basically playing the meta-game, i.e. the opposing player rather than the opposing character.

In general, I don't like such things in rpgs although with a sports game perhaps it's more fitting. Otherwise I'd replace it with a 'read pitcher' skill vs. 'out think batter' skill test myself.

Batters and Pitchers of course should have a range of bonuses to reflect that they can't treat everything the same. Right handers vs. Left handers, fast balls vs curve, etc.

A baseball game is very demanding due to how complex and studied the real game is.

Plus I'd have to ask what does a PnP rpg bring to the table that an Xbox 360 or a fantasy league doesn't?

Rock Paper scizors alone certainly would be boring. One potential difference is here the decision would not be unmotivated. Depending on the circumstances, some pitches would be better choices than others. So, the guessing game would mesh with and complicate a more interesting tactical question of what is the best pitch under the circumstances.

As to whether or not this would be more interesting than a computerized version, I have no opinion.

Brimshack wrote:One potential difference is here the decision would not be unmotivated. Depending on the circumstances, some pitches would be better choices than others.

This strikes me as easier to pull off in concept than it is in reality. RPGs of more tradition settings than sports have attempted this before with IMO less than outstanding success with 'The Riddle of Steel' being the most recent I looked at.

I think rather than dive into the mechanics, you have to ask some questions up front. The first being why would someone want to play a PnP sports game. The second is likely how long would they like to play a PnP sports game.

The first question will point you in the direction what where to apply mechanic systems and their basic nature. The latter will determine how much effort needs to go into balance and detail as those elements generally are only required over the long term.

gleichman wrote:

Brimshack wrote:One potential difference is here the decision would not be unmotivated. Depending on the circumstances, some pitches would be better choices than others.

This strikes me as easier to pull off in concept than it is in reality. RPGs of more tradition settings than sports have attempted this before with IMO less than outstanding success with 'The Riddle of Steel' being the most recent I looked at.

I think rather than dive into the mechanics, you have to ask some questions up front. The first being why would someone want to play a PnP sports game. The second is likely how long would they like to play a PnP sports game.

The first question will point you in the direction what where to apply mechanic systems and their basic nature. The latter will determine how much effort needs to go into balance and detail as those elements generally are only required over the long term.

Fair enough; I'm out of this one.

gleichman wrote:I think rather than dive into the mechanics, you have to ask some questions up front. The first being why would someone want to play a PnP sports game. The second is likely how long would they like to play a PnP sports game.

The first question will point you in the direction what where to apply mechanic systems and their basic nature. The latter will determine how much effort needs to go into balance and detail as those elements generally are only required over the long term.

I have a pretty solid handle with what I want from the RP side of the equation, but it is somewhat divorced from the in-game play. I can discuss that, but I really want to get a handle on some mechanics to run a baseball game quickly and give players a feeling of fun.

Brimshack wrote:Rock Paper scissors alone certainly would be boring. One potential difference is here the decision would not be unmotivated. Depending on the circumstances, some pitches would be better choices than others. So, the guessing game would mesh with and complicate a more interesting tactical question of what is the best pitch under the circumstances.

As to whether or not this would be more interesting than a computerized version, I have no opinion.

I am looking to make the die rolls more general, a one die roll per at-bat set-up. Deciding pitches for a one roll per at-bat situation wouldn't jive since pitchers would most likely use a variety of pitches and locations in a single at-bat. Since I want to resolve the whole thing in one roll, the flavor of the pitches and reactions could be described by GM or player as part of the resolution to the contact and hit rolls.

I will try to come up with a few results tables to illustrate my two die roll at bat mechanic idea. I'll post it as soon as I have it hammered out.

OK, here's a first pass at the two roll per at-bat system I'm trying to develop.

Contact Roll
1 K
2 K
3 K
4 BB
5 contact
6 contact
7 contact
8 contact
9 contact
10 contact +1


If the result on the first roll is K, then the player struck out
If the result on the first roll is BB, then the player is walked
If the result on the first roll is contact, then player consults the second roll for the hit roll
If the result on the first roll is contact +1, then player consults the second roll for the hit roll but adds one to that result



Hit Roll
1 ground-out
2 ground-out
3 ground-out
4 fly-out
5 fly-out
6 fly-out
7 single
8 single
9 double
10 HR

On a double result, the player can make a speed test to stretch it to a triple.

The justification for these results is an attempt to reflect the statistical results of an entire MLB season (2006 stats for both leagues combined). I've yet to test the dice, but hits come out around 25% of the time, walks should be in line as well, if my probabilities are correct.

The next step I want to take is to devise a way for batters and pitchers to have modifiers to the rolls along with a small bump for a specific at-bat strategy. This should account for small +1s or -1s, nothing to skew the results too far one way or another.

I have no idea how it would actually play out yet, though.

I like the idea of a dice based baseball game. I loved these kinds of games as a kid but haven't tried Sports-clix yet.

I also like the two die idea. When starting to play baseball just hitting the thing was tough enough. Professionals of course can do much more. Half of getting on base is droppping the ball where the defenders are not.

Here are some ideas off the top of my head, in no particular order just some things your ideas got me thinking about.

Different control and power die for different hitters and/or options. If I'm going to bunt, maybe I get a D12 for contact but only a D8 for distance/outcome (of course mayb no fly-out in that case).

I'd add in a speed roll to get to first base on some of the grounders. Heck that was always fun.

On pitches vesus batting strategy, I'd suggest hidden chits or colored tokens. Simultaneous reveal proir to die rolls. Cross index pitch to strategy to get die modifiers, maybe even a die switch. Hit die becomes distance die, for example.

I'd add in the concept of balls somehow. Maybe in a pitch roll / type.

Mechanics wise I'm seeing 1 die for the pitcher, 2 die for the batter, and the pitcher and batter each secretly select a strategy token chit that modifies outcome.

I wouldn't worry at all about recreating stats accurately. Just as long as the batting averages are not too wonky it should be fun. Especially pushing them runners around the bases out pulling them off when they get out. Stat junkies got fantasy baseball leagues already, this seems more like a head-to-head competition.

d10s are not granular enough to show a reasonable variance in the types of hits and make it exciting.

Here's my idea:

The Hitter
Stats are all on a scale of -5 to 5.
Perception - coordination and "eye". High Perception helps a player judge the movement, speed, and location of a pitch, allowing him to hit more easily.
Power - how hard the hitter can swing the bat.
Speed - how fast the player can run the bases
Pull - high pull means the ball is more likely to go to the left side of the field if the batter's lefty, right side if the batter's righty. Low pull is vice versa. This is on a scale of 2 to 9.
Fly - how often the player hits fly balls as opposed to grounders. This is on a scale of 2 to 9.

Pitcher Stats: Movement, Power, Control, and Pitch Ratings.
Movement - how much the pitcher can make the ball move.
Control - how easily the pitcher can control the movement of the ball.
Power - how fast the pitcher can throw the ball.
Pitch Ratings: for every pitch in the pitcher's repertoire, he gets a rating from -5 to 5 representing his ability to throw that specific pitch.

Here's a play sequence:
1.) Opposed rolls on the pitch.

Pitcher rolls d20 + pitch modifier
pitch modifier = max(Key pitch ability, Pitch Rating)

Hitter rolls d20 + perception

If the pitcher rolls a 20, it's an automatic strike.
If the pitcher rolls a 1, it's a passed ball or a hit-by-pitch.
If the batter rolls a 20, it's a home run.
If the pitcher wins by more than the batter's perception, the pitch is a strike.
If the pitcher wins by less than the batter's perception, the pitch it fouled off.
If the batter wins he rolls to determine the hit result.

And the rest is pretty easy to figure out from there (though probably difficult to balance). You just have to derive the hitter's "hit-to" matrix based on his pull, his fly, and his power.